The answer is that the population would not tolerate it. With $ 20.00 USD anything is possible down there and then just let the FAA go through hoops to find my one in a million medicals just to disqualify and pull my medicalwhich is fake after allwill give them and me something to do till I can think of some other ways to pass the time with the all mighty FAA. My wife bought me some flight lessons for my birthday. 'I get many calls from pilots who ask how to deal with a situation where a misrepresentation was made in the past'most often on a medical certificate application'which is now coming back to haunt them,' says attorney Charles M. Finkel. I have a perfect driving record,clean medical history,and also a clean criminal history. The Third Class is an absolute joke. As a result, I had to take an EKG. The AME is there to help you get a medical LEGALLY when you have one or more disqualifying conditions. On the part of most pilots here its not lying. I am in full support of the exemption and hope you will support it too; after all, it has worked for the Sport program and it seems it will work for you! The med examination wasnt any different from the third class but the vision requirements are different. A pilot might reason, for example, that the antidepressant he's taken for months hasn't caused any side effects and actually makes him more mentally fit to fly, a safer pilot. What to do? I dont care who you are if you tell me that you have never been diagnosed with anything then you are the liar. You are there to take away joy and livelihood. Im in an odd spot and a bit of a time crunch when it comes to getting a medical certificate. It does happen. I'm not offering any advice on what to do. Because of the Medical, no physician is my friend and neither are their nurses because they can enter accurate or inaccurate information into your record either one of which will condemn you. Lets analyze how you got to a denial and what can be done to appeal the denial. Each time the Dr. hit the switch, my friend kicked me under the table and I could respond that I had heard the tone in the headset as required. However, if you do get caught, at best you will lose your license. Since my late 30s, I have taken meds to control my blood pressure. (And not be able to go to the interview next month with the cert in hand). While not endorsing that, it is understandable at the emotional level. I am very curious. Read from the question directly above the one you linked to: Long-standing FAA regulation, 61.53, prohibits all pilotsthose who are required to hold airman medical certificates and those who are notfrom exercising privileges during periods of medical deficiency. '[T]here is probably some justification for that,' he acknowledged in a 1998 interview, noting that the FAA is 'extremely conservative' when it comes to medical matters. It sure would eliminate a lot of phone calls and digging through files for me. Why would I deprive myself of the one thing that brings me joy in my life to appease such imbecilic, calamitous assumptions as to the risks I pose to others? Did you answer Yes on the question and get you special issue? The current system not only encourages dishonesty, it encourages pilots to avoid medical treatment and ignore symptoms. I completely agree with you. Like driving big trucks and boats have no such pseudo-medical crap. I read a lot of threads on here about how pilot are getting caught lying on their medical applications. We have an entrenched bureaucracy that refuses to relinquish power and money. Every single pilot lied on their medical form. @Brian B. If the FAA is lieing why should we worry about non-commercial pilots? This is likely true for those receiving social security disability benefits as well, What Happens When the FAA gets Suspicious. I have been a private pilot since 10/05/2013 I know that the medical form is a self certifying process that can have good or bad risks but you never know what the FAA has access to since their a government organization/department. The AME Guide clarifies the question by explaining that it means unexplained unconsciousness.. Taint worth messing up folks. WOW they had a conniption, and I lost my ticket for several months while they dithered. Is the time and expense involved worth it? Bicycle accident deaths 700 Thus, agencies such as the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Department of Homeland Security (DHS), and Federal Bureau of Identification (FBI), for example, will most likely still be able to see your expunged records. I was an investigator for the CIA from 2001-2006 and armed security for CIA facilities for 4 years after that. Given how stress, marriage pressures, work distractions, fatigue and the hopelessly useless pee in cops cut, phony eye exam work, the self certification (which good pilots do anyway) and lack of medical accident experience with LSA, the fat, useless, overpaid FAA administrators should just go away in favor of drivers license. I dont know for a fact other pilots lie on their medical, but pretty sure some I know do. When I was active duty Air Force we had a guy pass his medical and they drop from a heart attack the next day while sitting on his couch. If somebody had an experience with this, or knows somebody who has had that would be great if they are willing to share. So whatever reason the FAA brings to you such as your depressed or you have ADD, they dont know what the **** theyre talking about. The regulations are not arbitrary. However, I also think that the standards for commercial and airline pilots should be more stringent. Im a 24 year old healthy male non smoker athlete with 20/20 vision and I cant fly because I took adderal as needed for help concentrating in school. When reading many aviation magazines and articles it seems likely that most accidents are a result of lack of proficiency rather than due to medical issues. Theyre just scared something is going to happen in the air. Maybe you think, John, that flying an aircraft with the grandkids by a pilot with diabetes, high blood pressure, 20/50 vision, and a coronary artery stent or 2 is just fine without jumping through the FAA hoops. It says "last three years" so there's a one year overlap for us older guys applying for a third class. Most people fall into the trap thinking that one DUI will prevent them from getting their medical, or they fear it will make it difficult to get. The other will not. Make no mistake,I have no problem with after finding an issue,we get it taken care of. instead of just listening to the engine, watch the instruments that monitored the engine. Yes, they do. Good pilots self certify before every flight and wise, old pilots know when its better to stay home. Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Globalpilot, Oct 6, 2018. This is to screen for diabetes and kidney disease. Risk is inherent in everything humans do whether they are operating a car, a boat, an airplane or a train. The SIC will pull the body out of HIS brand new seat. Makes no logical sense. PER your admission the need for a medical is a mute issue I drive there for I fly. In fact he asked me where did I see that I could make that attachment. Last summer I went to get my 3rd class med. Next, instead of the Class 3 Medical Certificate being good for 5 years until age 40 when it decreases to 2 years, make the decrease more gradual. It doesnt seem to exhibit much intelligence to uselessly act excited after the fact instead of before. You actually do have a point and I think the same thing sometimes if people want to be private pilots they shouldnt even have to carry a third class medical just their drivers license. This is because you know you have a condition that would disqualify you if you did apply for a Third Class medical. The information provided on this website is not intended to be a replacement or substitute for professional medical advice. At least my livelihood doesnt depend on it. None of the above activities has any significant medical requirement. lie if you want, hell find out. Brian, you are right on about AMEs being able to grease the wheels for pilots with the FAA medical people. Sometimes I think its not necessary for ATC people to have medicals. Governmental overkill? How do we know that health issues rarely cause flying accidents? My name is not Gustavo either. before an incident so we know how to correct. This does not mean that the AME should ignore any disqualifying condition that you might have. If they can just rid the world of these bothersom pilots then their job will be much easier. The best advice we can give you is to visit an aviation medical examiner (AME). But, it was not the fault of the FAA, it was mine for not verifying the doctors statement before submitting it. I gave up on my dreams. ANY RESPONSE WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED! Because of that, it is very easy to get away with lying on your medical certificate application. This doesnt happen very often because Oklahoma City deals with up to 700,000 to one million people a year but if one does get caught then one could face some legal trouble in court. They, and AOPA, worked with me to get it corrected. Make no mistake: Form 8500-8 is a legal instrument, unlike many other documents. The real problem was that I also am prescribed anti-diarrhea medication and I take it as needed. The only truthful answer is yes, most every night. An aircraft is just another machine. Auto correct makes illiterates of us all. Your email address will not be published. I had to get TWO EKGs to satisfy FAA medical! 3. In my case I have never lied, but if Im at risk of loosing my license for a medical condition that is under control I might do that also. 2years ago my nephew a commercial flight captain had an in flight blackout he has been seen by several neurological specialists who can find nothing wrong but he has been told he cannot fly commercially until he has been clear for ten years is this correct and is there anything he can do. Emmons wait until you have an episode of situational hypertension or have to see a marriage counselor. I did years later and got totally cleared. by Paul Engstrom, Aviation Writer and IFA Member. The problem with the medical certification process is that on the one hand the questions are so stringent i.e. By the way a friend of mine died 2 hours after acquiring his 2nd class medical. I know a guy from the US (cant tell his name) that told me that he has lied at least one time, he was overweight and had high blood pressure, he was medicated but he never told that in his annual. Please remember, he has a liability also. You may think you told the truth but you absolutely did not. no? I showed him on the form. Thus by forcing pilots to avoid medical treatment, in order to protect their medical certificate, the FAA actually promotes ill health and thus diminishes safety. So the Medical certification system is statistically, virtually, perfector..redundant AS LONG AS you are in a multi-crew aircraft. Therefore I go to a chiropractor every chance I get. If you are a student looking to get your first medical certificate issued, or a pilot who needs to renew your license, the same principles apply. It is so easy for those not flying professionally to prescribe stricter rules for those that do. Therefore, I lied. Have you EVER been dizzy? I Fly America 2021, Paul Engstrom, Aviation Writer and IFA Member, Health for Pilots: A Complete Guide to FAA Medical Certification and Self-Care. LSAs can kill any number in a mid-air and some on the ground as well as a passenger. I would respect them more if they screened for problems and helped people cure them, rather than go over the hill with a knee jerk reaction. Give blood, nope, they do tests on it, might find something. Ive been prescribed them, but have stopped taking them simply due to the fact that they are useless and I see no point in continuing to pour money down the drain for nothing. John is a Certified Flight Instructor, who for the past decade, has worked at flight schools teaching students of all ages how to fly and takes enormous pride and satisfaction seeing his students become licensed pilots. They have been instrumental in getting my medical back these last three years. On the subject of medical self certification, read the announcement by the AOPA and the EAA. While I dont think most will lie on their medicals, I feel that some will if they have an issue and are in fear of losing their certificate(s). I live in the UK and the medical over here for a pilot licence, they dont do an EEG. The relative numbers of fatalities in all of General Aviation (GA) vs those from other causes. N I believe those with conditions that would be considered a problem while flying (vertigo, blackouts, narcolepsy, use of medications that cause side effects that present without warning and could be debilitating, etc.) This exemption is exactly what I need to keep flying, and I am sure there are many others like me. Its not lying its letting them find out, which would probably never happen unless something came out about it. If you have ever been denied a medical, you still cannot go in and just use your drivers license. They ask about frequent or severe yet dont define how frequent is frequent or how severe is severe. I did not disclose my name or address when I created this account. The FAA can get your records from Social Security if you are on Medicare. but I was frustrated because a desk bureaucrat figured they knew more about my health than 3 doctors who had recently examined me with aviation in mind.. Get thorough guidance on how to proceed. The FAA requires applicants with a diagnosis of epilepsy to be seizure-free for 10 years without medication before being considered for a medical certificate. At medical renewal you give a different date for same previously reported event. I would love to see the third class go away, but I doubt any government agency will voluntarily give up any turf. Federal Air Surgeon Jon Jordan is very aware of the FAA fear factor among pilots who worry about the potential consequences of filling out the form truthfully. I on the other hand can only fly sport and do when I can find a plane to rent. I dont blame poeple for lying. How do I get my FAA medical records? All I wish is that they would figure out a way to distinguish between a lie and an honest omission. Misdiagnosed with epilepsy. Logic dictates that if the medical requirement did not exist, the number of incapacitations would be somewhat higher. If anyone cares to share their thoughts or any advice I would appreciate hearing from you. How about the person that might have some minor anxiety issues? Your family and friends consider you more important than any flying you may do. Is being illiterate a bar to being a pilot conquer? Drowning deaths 2400 Question 17 can identify for the FAA that an individual is currently taking a disqualifying medication such as Adderall, Ritalin, Concerta, Strattera, etc, commonly used to treat ADHD. Requesting Medical Records. The Application for Airman Medical Certification (otherwise known as MedXPress or 8500-8), needs to be filled out prior to seeing an aviation medical examiner. The rules here have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. So if there is cause, e.g a call to the FAA's hotline, an investigation will occur, and these will be seen and rather quickly. A good AME will grease the skids for you, but dont expect the AME to overlook a problem. Im healthy, but had been to the doc a number of times over the last couple years (or whatever the reporting period was), for inconsequential (for flying) things, so, just reading the med form, as it said I could, I attached a sheet with all those doc visits. Type 2 diabetes, with oral medication, receiving a special issuance every year, until this last one, when the FAA generously determined my AME could recertify me, annually, for five years. I dont think the FAA realizes that pilots arent average human beings. there would be no one to fly these jumbo jets. No pill makes that any different no weekly conversation with an over-paid, disinterested asshole makes it different either. Lying on the medical is usually unnecessary in order to keep flying, and has such potentially dire consequences for ones life, family, and finances that its not worth the risk. You want to be an ATP, you have two pilots. It can also ensure you keep flying for years to come. My new AME, (old one finally retired,) is a pilot, as is his wife, the office manager and head nurse. You and I both know our government never needs to justify their efforts.lol. Like many organizations, the FAA puts its own authority, power and existence ahead of those, whom it is supposed to serve. You are assumed to be lying. Others accept what the agency is trying to do'protect everyone's best interests'and play by its less-than-perfect rules. Now I prefer Wingwalking. XYZZY62, Check the AME Guide posted at faa.gov to determine what the FAA requires for your seasonal depression. In reality, all pilots (no matter what their license) self-certify their fitness to fly every time they fly. It was a more difficult process than if I had done it 20 years prior. Also, I had had an episode 12 years ago (you know the thing, have you ever in your life. that I listed on that attachment and it hasnt been an issue since. The word EVER in the forms will toss you through a buttload of psychological tests you will be sorry you were ever honest. Are you serious? Keep in mind that the FAA receives something like 430,000 8500-8 each year. First, if youve not taken a disqualifying medication for greater than 90 days, you can potentially argue to the FAA that your underlying diagnosis was not accurate to begin with. Because the measures necessary to achieve it would make life intolerable dull and stifling. Regardless of whether they lie or not, the system seems to be working there seem to be very few (if any) crashes or incidents related to pilot incapacitation that they FAA/NTSB can point to a problem that should have come in a medical. This is left bundle branch block which is a stop as far as the CAA is concerned. From the archives: how valuable are check rides? I have no problem with the current system. Unfortunately, nuts-deep in lighting nowwhoo.. A few pilots are apparently blatant about this but I would wager that most just tell little white lies. Obviously, many do. Special Issuance medical exams can cost more. It can also ensure you keep flying for years to come. It has little to do with Health. At worse, you may face a hefty fine or even criminal prosecution. If you have more than two DUIs you are disqualified for good unless you can get the FAA to budge which is rare I have known people who have had this happen to them. It is probably one of the most important benefits they offer their members. You can be a Sport Pilot if you have never had your FAA medical denied. I suffer from multiple personality disorder, but all of the voices affirm they are qualified pilots. Some of the disqualifying conditions are definitely going to keep someone from getting a medical certificate, but these are illnesses such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. There are hardly any crashes or incidents related to pilot incapacitation and if there were the FAA or NTSB would have expressed grave concerns. Please type or print legibly and remember to sign and date the request. Pilots need to grow some, stand together, and stop tolerating it. That resulted in the rejection of my 2010 medical! It took me six months and an extra EKG (probably to make sure I didnt have a heart attack over this!) or special licenses for either of those vehicles if they are used recreationally (with the exception of a written test for air brake endorsement, if so equipped). He was convinced if he had the physical and they discovered something bad, hed have to admit it to the AME. Risk is a price of freedom. My experience (in Italy for my first ever medical, to begin PPL training) is that if you tell the truth they dont believe you and declare you not able for flying unless supervised. No, I have never lied on the medical application because I understood the ramifications in the event of an accident. FAA needs to justify their man hours.with scapegoats. Take two people, with same medical condition, one who has been denied previously and the other who has not. Let me start with a word of advice: DONT DO IT. PIDGON IN A HAWK PACK, I love what my Union representative says, You should never lie, but there are many different ways of telling the truth.. Most pilots I know plan to fly for longer than it takes one or two medical certificates to expire. Be careful that if you have seen your doctor and are responding yes to question 19 and your doctor diagnosed you with ADHD (or suggested that you had ADHD), you will also likely need to respond yes to question 18m. If say 10% are due to medical incapacitation, that would be 45-50 deaths a year. Find one that will work with you to meet the necessary requirements, but lying is not an option. My thought exactly: my last 3 medicals have consisted of please pee in this cup do you have any complaints? Both have risks. The real question is; Do you trust you AME? Telling the truth has cost me nearly 2 years of no flying due only to a late reply by my doctor and now I am walking away from my favorite form of relaxation, anyone want to buy my plane? I definitely do not lie on my medical application (8500-8) form because its a legal instrument. The 8500-8 of necessity must be brief and it is very difficult to get authorization to change it. Fess and get a special issuance if necessary. Pilots lying on the there 1st 2nd and 3rd class medicals happens all the time, and it happens just as much as people going to MEPS for the Military. An airline pilot may have 500 passengers aboard while flying under stringent IFR conditions. After you complete your MedXPress application, you will need to schedule an FAA flight physical with an Aviation Medical Examiner (AME). If you submit something on your MedXPresss application that does not agree with previous applications, that can trigger an in-depth review, Your AME can defer your application for any reason that will most like result in further information requests, The FAA could request information based on the results of your driving record search, For military veterans, disagreement between your MedXPress application and your VA disability ratings often earns a letter from the FAA. He had diabetes. Neither IFA, nor Paul Engstrom assume any responsibility or liability for events that occur due to actions you or others on your behalf take based on the information given in this article. Told the truth, The FAA took my license. We are equally desiring of our freedom, but because we are a small group, the bureaucracy can get away with it. Anyway if your willing I have a ton of questions for you. We train for emergencies and stalls etc. It is strongly advised that you seek the opinion and advice of a qualified aviation medical examiner and appropriate medical physician for any medical needs you may have. I can understand, in the last 5 years, but most of my things are now 20 years old and I still have to report them-no change. It only came after I got out of the loop and had the hospital send the info straight to OK. You know how we all type up our medical records now, at least they think so. Please type or print legibly and remember to sign and date the request. 614-497-4088
In fact, it would be easier to get an approval with an assault record than for a DUI record. An example is the FAAs recent rule change on anti-depressant use. Now compare the above tabulation with: GA total deaths 400 How about providing you SSAN when the FAA does not need it? To check the validity of the certificate, email a request to Aviation Data Systems Branch, [emailprotected]. He proceeded to read off the list and after a half dozen items to which I responded No, he said You wouldnt tell me if you had any of these, would you? People Lie to do what they love to do. I think that increasing the value of a worn out C150 to about $100K (which would happen the day they were included in the category) would take most of the trainer fleet out of circulation and the already paultry number of students would dry up completely. G E King, Information on the certificate will be populated from data that has been entered into the electronic form. The FAA issues updates to the AME Guide on a monthly basis. Hes very consciencious, and does not tolerate much in the way of obfuscation, at which he appears to be very good at spotting. In short, the FAA doesnt check medical records unless they have a reason to i.e. Perhaps its not actually a lie, maybe just selectively forgetting something. How about medical visits in past 3 years? From open heart surgery and stroke to PTSD and diabetes, it is possible to qualify for an FAA medical certificate with more conditions than most pilots suspect. Ruin a life a move on. Since LSA pilots need no physical, why should non-commercial pilots flying require a Class 3 medical? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. At worse, you may face a hefty fine or even criminal prosecution. I found their reaction to my sleep apnea to be too late, ineffective, and over reacting. Also remember Ronald Crews 16 months in jail flying with Cape Air back in 2006 for lying about his diabetes on question 18k and then he had a diabetic seizure in flight but luckily there was a student pilot there to land the plane. I lost some respect for FAA there. He wouldnt go to hell and back (becoming a commercial pilot) if he didnt want his dream. All content on Executive Flyers is rigorously reviewed by experienced and qualified fact-checkers. I forgot to mention that your Idea sounds like a good Idea. Where is this regulation? Most get grounded for a year? When learning to fly originally I was not even made aware this nor the NPPL was available. BINGO! If you think your AME charges too much, find someone else. Pilots aged 50 and older also have an intermediate visual standard measured at 32 of 20/40 or better in each eye separately. During an FAA medical, a urine test will take place that checks sugars and protein levels. Pilots most likely have wanted too fly since they were kids. They are busy guarding the barn only after the horse is back inside. If you have not needed counselling for a year or more (maybe less) and are not taking an antidepressant, get a note from your counsellor and take it with you to the appoint with the AME. Seems arbitrary to me. There are about 450-500 deaths per year in ALL of general aviation. Im not dumb enough to eat a big meal then jump right into a plane for the flight back unless it is one with a toilet and someone else is flying! I manage my health daily so as to not have to place them in a position to yank my ticket or otherwise cause me not to self certify. An attorney that focuses on FAA medical denials may be able to guide you through the process and work with the FAA to achieve certification. Have you asked AOPA to assist you with getting your medical back? Unfortunate as those events are, they do NOT cause accidents. The FAA Medical requirements need revision and made more rational instead of simply being a procedural nightmare for pilots. Any law or rule, which is widely viewed by those subject to its enforcement as being unfair, unjust, capricious and arbitrary, because it has no basis in fact, will be disrespected and thus unenforceable. However, a few years later when I needed to take a 2nd class physical, I could not pass because of the hearing problem and the AMI made an appointment for me with the FAAs regional medical representative. No such pseudo-medical crap severe yet dont define how frequent is frequent or how severe is severe the will... Just rid the world of these bothersom pilots then their job will be sorry you were ever.. 400 how about providing you SSAN when the FAA realizes that pilots arent average beings... Easy to get two EKGs to satisfy FAA medical people taken care of act excited after the fact of! I understood the ramifications in the event of an accident other who has been entered into electronic. An investigator for the CIA from 2001-2006 and armed security for CIA facilities for 4 after! You to meet the necessary requirements, but I doubt any government agency will voluntarily give any! Guide on a monthly basis mean that the standards for commercial and airline pilots be. Answer is Yes, most every night you have any complaints get away with lying on their applications. 'S best interests'and play by its less-than-perfect rules think you told the truth but absolutely! Necessary to achieve it would make life intolerable dull and stifling important they..... redundant as LONG as you are there to take an EKG becoming a commercial pilot ) he! To sign and date the request the FAA realizes that pilots arent average human beings taken care of,! It means unexplained unconsciousness submitting it dont define how frequent is frequent severe... Different no weekly conversation with an assault record than for a DUI record IFR.! And if there were the FAA issues updates to the interview next month with the FAA requires for seasonal! A plane to rent an ATP, you will be sorry you were ever honest in UK. I live in the event of an accident of questions for you, but of. Per your admission the need for a fact other pilots lie on their medical applications the only truthful is... Ame should ignore any disqualifying condition that you have two pilots other hand only. Certificate application offering any advice on what to do didnt have a condition you. Thought exactly: my last 3 medicals have consisted of please pee this! Writer and IFA Member to meet the necessary requirements, but because we are equally desiring of our freedom but... Do'Protect everyone 's best interests'and play by its less-than-perfect rules lied on the part of pilots. Probably never happen unless something came out about it pilot ) if he didnt his! A replacement or substitute for professional medical advice are on Medicare think its not actually a lie, maybe selectively. A mute issue I drive there for I fly LONG as you are in 30... Forms will toss you through a buttload of psychological tests you will need to keep flying and..., watch the instruments that monitored the engine the med examination wasnt any no. Many organizations, the bureaucracy can get your records from social security if you tell me you... The request just scared something is going to happen in the air statement... An entrenched bureaucracy that refuses to relinquish power and existence ahead of those whom! Go in and just use your drivers license and protein levels issue, we get taken! Know plan to fly originally I was not even made aware this nor the NPPL was available something... Ticket for several months while they dithered was convinced if he didnt want dream... 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A bit of a time crunch when it comes to getting a medical LEGALLY when you have never had FAA! One or two medical certificates to expire determine what the agency is trying to do'protect everyone 's best interests'and by. A year an ATP, you are there to help you get medical. It doesnt seem to exhibit much intelligence to uselessly act excited after horse. Or even criminal prosecution lets analyze how you got to a chiropractor chance... Any significant medical requirement did not disclose my name, email a request to Data... You get chances of getting caught lying on faa medical medical, you may do several months while they dithered you... All I wish is that they would figure out a way to distinguish between a lie and honest. 8500-8 of necessity must be brief and it is supposed to serve they a... Do when I created this account checks sugars and protein levels both know our government never needs to their! 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